10 April 2020 @ 03:55 pm
LJ Tos Changes - Poll  
LJ recently moved it's servers to Russia and changed it's Terms of Service. There's an article on Gizmodo here and on another site here. I've had some people ask if we are going to move the Comm to another site. At the moment, no we don't. But I wanted to get opinions on the matter.

[Poll #2066125]
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[identity profile] emmatheslayer.livejournal.com on April 10th, 2017 10:58 pm (UTC)
I would say backup your archive of this but don't move the majority are here were not doing anything wrong so why move
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deanshot1: Our Boys[personal profile] deanshot1 on April 10th, 2017 11:05 pm (UTC)
I would say just back it up on another site as a just in case but I'm staying here and so are other on my flist.
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eve_n_furter: Jolly Coffee[personal profile] eve_n_furter on April 10th, 2017 11:09 pm (UTC)
Back up so we're prepared if push comes to shove.
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vexed_wench: SPN - Sam the fandom whore[personal profile] vexed_wench on April 10th, 2017 11:18 pm (UTC)
My 2 cents
I would back it up to DW if nothing else. I would be concerned by the fact that both of the pages you linked talk about Russia and their stance on not being LGBTQ friendly. With the amount of posts looking for Sam/Dean and Cas/Dean I think you would have reason to be worried.
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[identity profile] szarabasjka.livejournal.com on April 10th, 2017 11:18 pm (UTC)
Dreamwidth could be a backup place; you can import pretty much everything and keep posting here as a crosspost until/if/when it gets deleted.
[identity profile] jennygeee.livejournal.com on April 11th, 2017 01:02 am (UTC)
I have a Dreamwidth account and you say you can import from LJ, could you point me to instructions on how to do this please? Thank you
[identity profile] jennygeee.livejournal.com on April 11th, 2017 01:18 am (UTC)
sorry I've answered my own question!! You do it from DW not from LJ.

Here

(https://www.dreamwidth.org/support/faqbrowse?faqid=127)
[identity profile] szarabasjka.livejournal.com on April 11th, 2017 01:26 am (UTC)

Sorry I was kinda busy.
Also sorry for not being clear

[identity profile] dinkwerks.livejournal.com on April 10th, 2017 11:40 pm (UTC)
Stay where you are for now, but be ready with a backup, just in case.
[identity profile] szarabasjka.livejournal.com on April 11th, 2017 01:23 am (UTC)

Problem with staying is that TOS  say they can delete material and full accounts without previous notice;  what if one day you log in and your account no longer exists?



Edited 2017-04-11 01:25 am (UTC)
reijamira: [SPN] Sam & Dean all emo[personal profile] reijamira on July 8th, 2017 09:22 pm (UTC)
This! This is what I'm afraid of, actually. And it makes me uncomfortable to be on LJ. I already packed my things and moved to DW. At this point I don't have much hope for fandom on LJ.
[identity profile] szarabasjka.livejournal.com on July 8th, 2017 10:46 pm (UTC)
Dw is not that active anyways
reijamira: [Star Trek] triumvirate Enterprise[personal profile] reijamira on July 10th, 2017 06:50 am (UTC)
I know, but I'm hopeful that it'll become more active once LJ starts deleting the first journals.
[identity profile] kattrip033.livejournal.com on April 10th, 2017 11:48 pm (UTC)
I have to echo [livejournal.com profile] vexed_wench sentiments. At least back it up.
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[identity profile] lilypessoa.livejournal.com on April 10th, 2017 11:57 pm (UTC)
The nature of the stories published on LJ, specifically the often incestuous scenarios written by SPN fans, raises concerns of continued anonymity for the authors. Russians have a long history of hacking US companies and citizens. Criminals find backdoors into some of the most secure databases in the world. I doubt LJ would put that much care into securing their data. Even if stories aren't being written in authors' real names, the ability to log ISPs is there. You can even save your ISP at login. This kind of information is too dangerous to put in the hands of criminals who lock for ransom computers all the time.

In addition, I think a mass exodus of LJ users would send a clear message to LJ that intolerance won't be tolerated. With as much gay porn written by SPN fans, it would be hypocritical to stay.
fufaraw[personal profile] fufaraw on April 11th, 2017 03:09 am (UTC)
These are exactly my concerns. Plus, there is a proviso in the new TOS that anyone found not adhering to the Russian guidelines is liable for public reveal of their actual name, address, and other personal information. And not least, prosecution for breaking Russian law. I understand their main focus is Russian political writers who disagree with the government, but reality is, fandom still falls under Russian law, under the new TOS, and participants--fic writers, artists, even LJ members *discussing* LGBTQA issues are breaking the law and are liable for prosecution.

It doesn't make sense to run the risk of staying "because we're not doing anything wrong." According to the law where the owners and the servers are located, we *ARE*.

If you want to take time to gather your members and prepare for the move, then that's your decision. But I would *strongly* advise backing up and keeping the comm updated on Dreamwidth, which uses the template of an older version of LJ, and was developed and is still managed by former LJ employees who helped develop and maintain LJ. There are differences, but community can be maintained in much the same format as here. And be prepared to move entirely in case LJ decides to enforce their new TOS.
[identity profile] lysanatt.livejournal.com on April 11th, 2017 07:10 am (UTC)
Problem is that LJ already removed the option for HTTPS, which means that on HTTP only, any 13 year old with hacker aspirations can snoop on all communication to and from LJ - and let's just say that the Russian intelligence which DO snoop because they are interested in the political resistance that has a home here, is not in the habit to employ amateurs. Nothing posted here is closed, secret or hidden any longer.
fufaraw: J2[personal profile] fufaraw on April 11th, 2017 07:59 am (UTC)
I'd just like to mention that http://spnstoryfinders.dreamwidth.org/profile already exists, created on 2009-04-12 17:38:11 (#47554), and last updated 2009-08-18. Importing a community is different than importing an individual account. I believe the comm imports complete, but without the comments. So a backup for the LJ version would be necessary. I don't know if DW can simply do a mirror backup as a reference, if we don't plan to add to it. DW help can advise on how best to preserve the community that's been built here on LJ, and continue uninterrupted at DW, if that's what the community decides to do.
[identity profile] lost-girl124.livejournal.com on April 11th, 2017 09:19 pm (UTC)
I agree that we should backup/move to DW. Better to be safe than sorry at this point. We have so much here and it would be awful to lose it.
[identity profile] twistofapen.livejournal.com on April 11th, 2017 12:06 am (UTC)
Newbie question: Dreamwidth seems like the popular backup choice. Would moving there make it inconvenient for LJ users to post/comment/etc if they don't have a DW account?
That concern aside, I'm all for moving. Might as well be proactive and switch over to a more welcoming site, rather than wait and risk getting deleted.
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[identity profile] crucis01.livejournal.com on April 11th, 2017 12:50 am (UTC)
Please consider moving but backup site before you do. With their stance on the gay, lesbian, trans etc community, it's probably only a matter of time until there are consequences for sites asking and posting links to this type of work. Please though, whatever ever you do do not move to Tumblr. Worst site of it's type on the web.
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[identity profile] cloex-brosluvr.livejournal.com on April 11th, 2017 01:52 am (UTC)
Stay here but maybe backup on DW.
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[identity profile] bluestar3317.livejournal.com on April 11th, 2017 02:02 am (UTC)
I vote for a back up at least to DW. I'm an avid reader and this LJ is a fantastic community. I would be sad if it disappeared.
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[identity profile] alexios novae on April 11th, 2017 02:53 am (UTC)
Everyone agrees that this is a stupid law. Very stupid. And Yarovaya's Act is being developed. It's even funnier and stupider and more expensive.
In fact, there are few who are prosecuted under such laws. Most often there is some activist who lodges a complaint with the police. And the police do not always find a crime in the case and it's rare, when everything ends in criminal proceedings.
There was something about the fact that fanfics are a genre of literature. On Russian sites where fanfics and fanarts are published, users simply indicate in the cap or title or in the pop-up window "I know that these materials are not intended for persons under 18" or something similar.
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meus_venator: Charlie fights like a girl[personal profile] meus_venator on April 11th, 2017 03:41 am (UTC)
You can backup on Dreamwidth and then start posting there but the entries and comments could be cross posted to LJ. Not simple but it leaves you with your comm intact and up to date at a moments notice. Your visuals all need to be moved to Dreamwidth as well.
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[identity profile] alexxkah.livejournal.com on April 11th, 2017 04:32 am (UTC)
I vote for back up on whichever site you choose but I wouldn't really be afraid.
I came across thousands of stories featuring slash and/or explixit gay scenes written by russian (or russian speaking) fanfic authors. Some sites on which those stories were posted were russian, some not but I am not aware of those authors being persecuted.
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[identity profile] ayane42.livejournal.com on April 11th, 2017 04:35 am (UTC)
I think the day before the new TOS, [livejournal.com profile] spn_littlebro was suspended because the account was marked as "spam". It was restored, but myself and the other admins were worried about losing our community :( we have backed up this community on Dreamwidth. Just in case. That was over 1300 hurt Sam/Jared stories that were not accessible. and when you need your hurt Sam/Jared, you need it now!!!

So yeah export it to Dreamwidth!!
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[identity profile] sammythankyou.livejournal.com on April 11th, 2017 06:00 am (UTC)
Backing up on DW sounds like the smartest course of action. As Ayane said, we lost littlebro to for almost a week because it was marked as spam. Given the new TOS, I have my suspicions, but since we had a DW backup, at most we would have lost one newsletter.

And aye, those laws are stupid. Fact is, if this community gets +3k visitors per day, it falls under what we've been forced to sign. According to Russian laws, we're breaking them. Before lj becomes delicious 2.0 - the revenge, I'd really go for a backup.
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[identity profile] sailorhathor.livejournal.com on April 11th, 2017 06:02 am (UTC)
Mirror it on DW, don't move it. That way, if LJ does start cracking down on comms with slash, there will be a backup.
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digitalwave: Cat in the Box![personal profile] digitalwave on April 11th, 2017 06:28 am (UTC)
I'd mirror it on Dreamwidth. You can crosspost from the Dreamwidth account so that it automatically posts to Livejournal each time a new entry is made. The LJ entry has a link back to the DW entry and it even keeps a tally if someone comments there. I've got some info on crossposting here:

http://digitalwave.livejournal.com/720850.html

And here:

http://digitalwave.livejournal.com/721260.html

That way you have an up to date, backed up site should the worst every happen.
[identity profile] hugemind.livejournal.com on April 11th, 2017 07:17 am (UTC)
I see there are a couple of comments that mention cross-posting, but as I've understood, it sadly doesn't seem to be an option with communities (http://www.dreamwidth.org/support/faqbrowse?faqid=98). This means that if the comm is mirrored on DW, the only way to keep the DW up to date is to back up to DW regularly. Then to avoid having double posts in the DW comm, people should post to the comm either at LJ or at DW, not both.

I vote for at least creating a back up of the comm, and suggest dreamwidth to do it because they've made the importing process very simple.
meus_venator: Charlie fights like a girl[personal profile] meus_venator on April 11th, 2017 05:40 pm (UTC)
Yes, you're right Re: communities can't crosspost. I forgot about that, but we found out when we ported [livejournal.com profile] spn_darkside to DW : (
[identity profile] sasha-dragon.livejournal.com on April 11th, 2017 06:29 am (UTC)
I'm with the others here you really need to back up to Dreamwidth, that way if the worst happens this awesome comm will still be with us. I'm staying with LJ until they throw me out, but I've got a backup Dreamwidth account just in case.
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[identity profile] anactoria.livejournal.com on April 11th, 2017 06:49 am (UTC)
I'm with everyone else -- at the very least back the comm up on DW. It's a great resource and I'd hate to see it vanish.
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[identity profile] wetsammy.livejournal.com on April 11th, 2017 07:10 am (UTC)
Back up (and mirroring) account on dreamwidth seems prudent. Prosecution may be very unlikely, but there is a real threat of suspension and shut down of accounts like this. If that happens, then you have the DW account available to move to.
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[identity profile] lysanatt.livejournal.com on April 11th, 2017 07:19 am (UTC)
The problem with security is obvious, now that we're on HTTP. Second problem is not the LGBTAQ+ which lives well, even on Russian sites. Problem is that here, it lives on LJ, and LJ is under scrutiny from the Russian intelligence and Putin's wing, since the opposition also lives here. Which means that any reason is valid to take the site down, or to bother it as much as possible.

Nobody really cares about the smaller sites that go under the radar. Problem is that LJ is big, draws a lot of attention from the Russian right wing, and at some point, there will be a sweep. It only takes on grumpy grandma, worried about the "LGBT politics" that their grandchild is reading (any fic will be seen as promoting it), and we'll have Strikeout 2017 ten years after the 2007 event.

So I say move. People from LJ can RSS feed the community into their f-list and reply with open ID if they don't want a DW account.
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[identity profile] chellexxx.livejournal.com on April 11th, 2017 04:04 pm (UTC)
Back up on DW, it's better to be safe than sorry after all. It would be a huge shame to lose this fabulous community

I'll be on lj to the bitter end, but i now have a DW account ... just in case

xxx
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[identity profile] amberdreams.livejournal.com on April 13th, 2017 07:28 am (UTC)
Agreeing with the general consensus - duplicate the comm on Dreamwidth and back up there. If LJ does pull sites, we are then covered.
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[identity profile] amandamarie1990.livejournal.com on April 16th, 2017 02:29 am (UTC)
If push comes to shove back it up to A03 just like sinful desire did as part of the Open Doors approved project.
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[identity profile] lysanatt.livejournal.com on April 16th, 2017 08:46 pm (UTC)
I got the spnstoryfinder comm at DW
The old owner of spnstoryfinder@Dreamwidth allowed me to take over the comm. I replied to her offer since I wanted to offer it here (the original owner knows this) in case you'd want to have the same name over there. I've read and enjoyed this comm for years, and found great fic here through other posters' searches, so I'd love to see the comm at DW if you ever decide to back up or move.

Just let me know, and I'll hand the reins over to you guys asap.
kruel_angel_lj: Angel of the Lord[personal profile] kruel_angel_lj on April 16th, 2017 11:06 pm (UTC)
RE: I got the spnstoryfinder comm at DW
That's great! I actually thought to contact them, but didn't want to wait for an answer so I ended up creating a new community and started the import yesterday. But, if you could that would be awesome! I had to create a new account on dreamwidth cause I deleted mine with my name there a long time ago. I'm not sure how taking over an existing community works on DW, but my DW account is https://kruel-angel-lj.dreamwidth.org/

Edit: Just saw the post on the comm over at DW, joined and left a comment there also. Thank you.

Edited 2017-04-16 11:44 pm (UTC)
fanspired[personal profile] fanspired on April 30th, 2017 09:18 am (UTC)
This morning my browser refused to allow me to log in to live journal because the site isn't secure. I can't be the only person that's happened to. If the issue persists then many users may find they simply can't log into their accounts any more. If you haven't backed up already, you should be aware that this has happened and could happen at any time.
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